Shelia DeBrettville questions

i am going to be interviewing Shelia DeBrettville, Professor at Yale University on her view on women and graphic design, but having just read an interview she did with some other woman i am finding it a bit daunting as it talks about feminism and a lot of stuff i don't understand or have an knowledge of.  
These are the questions i have for her so far, a lot are similar to the ones i asked Teal and Sian

Please could you tell about your involvement in the Women’s Building and what its purpose was?

You coined the term graphic design feminism? Can you explain what it is?

 Within Faculty of Design do you think there is enough being done to

promote female graphic designers to the student? Both the historical and modern role women have played in design.

Do you think that women bring different attributes and/or attitudes to graphic design? If so, what?

Do female Graphic Designers get the recognition they deserve? For example are they under-represented in industry events and media etc?

Following on from the pervious question, what are the barriers or choices to women Graphic Designers affecting them gaining wider recognition and kudos?

With more female graphic design graduates emerging in recent years do you think this has or will affect industry? And how? 

How to you think the role of women in graphic design varies from different cultures?

SVR changed my idea

i'm not too sure who i am writing to when i post on here because i have no one following this, but i have kinda changed my SVR report thing a bit, before i was just going to document my quotes from my research typographically or create pictograms, but this never felt like it was gelling, it did not flow at all. then at 2am one night i had  brain wave, and i have decided to instead look into the ways we visualize men and women in design work, so what images, symbols, colours, so we use to indicate gender. so... i am going to collect images to start with then maybe create my own, who knows.

More inforgraphic stuff

What is Called Design Thinking?

View more documents from Michael Dila.

Infographics

Been looking at info graphics as part f the SVR project and came across this great TED video on info graphics

Quotes for Report

I have extracted all the important quotes from my research, as you can see there are quite a lot, but I probably won't be using all of them.  I wanted to get them all infront of me, so i can start moving them around, and find some common themes. Ignore the article one and journal one stuff thats just for my filing so i know where all the quotes have come from.

Websites

Article 1 Gender pay differences – Times Online

“Women in full-time work in the UK are paid, on average, 17.2 per cent less then men.”

“Women who work full time are cheated out of around £330,000 over the course of their lifetime” Margaret Prosser

“Men were more likely to see themselves as very ambitious, while for women job satisfaction, being valued by their employer and doing a socially useful job were often more important.”

Two thirds take career breaks

Part time workers ten to be happier than full time peers. Men’s higher salaries carried with them other disadvantages.

Motherhood penalty and outdated perceptions of female roles.

Women caring for children are often forced o take on low-paying or part-time jobs. That’s not a free choice.

Article 2 – NOTHING

Article 3 – Volvo and women NOT MUCH

Article 4 – brand packaging to appeal to women

Article 5 – Co–designing with women

Article 6 –NOTHING

Article 7 – Interactive flash community

Article 8 – Why do some women think it’s ok to rely on men to pay their way? –Daily Mail

“For too long women have been trading down skills for flexibility, and have been willing to take on jobs for which they are overqualified and paid less. They’ve not had the confidence to say I want the same job as before but I want it part-time.”

“When I was in my 20s, I heard about an advertising agency, which placed an ad in a paper for a creative position. The salary was attractive but there was almost no responses from women candidates. Then a bright spark at the ad agency, had the idea of re-advertising the exact same position but with a lower salary. Dozens of women immediately replied.”

Article 10 – Female entrepreneurs to get advice and money for promising ideas – Daily Mail Online

Women business centres offering advice for women who typically lack confidence to launch their own business.

“Many new mothers are forced to quit work because their employer refused to be flexible about their maternity leave.”

“New mothers are frequently forced to take low-paid jobs for which they are hugely overqualified because they cannot find better part-time work.”

Article 13 – women are more into sustainable purchasing

Article 15 – AGDU

“There was an incredibly obvious gender imbalance in the speakers. The first 8 guest speakers in a row were men. Women designers and design educators were seemingly invisible. In the end, there were 23 men and only 8 women guest speakers at the seminar. This is in contrast to the latest (1996) Australian census figures which show that 6,000 of the 13,000 graphic designers in Australia are women. In even starker contrast, 60% of the 105 undergraduate graphic design students at the Tasmanian School of Art at Hobart in 1998 are female and only 40% are male.” The Future of Design Education, Art 15                   CHAP 2

Article 16 – women and game design

Article 17 – women and the craft movement, book binding, publishing

READ PROPERLY

Article 19 – Women in business ask: are women more ethical?

“most women aren’t as driven as men climb the corporate ladder and, consequently, less fearful to point out ethical wrongdoings.

Article 20-23 women and ethical business awards

Article 26 – women miss out on top advertising jobs – Guardian online

“women continue to make up approximately half the workforce but account for only 15.1% of managing directors or chief executives.” Maybe they don’t want to take on the roles which bring unsociable working hours

Article 27 – This advertising boss thinks women male ‘crap’ executives. Its seems he is not alone – Guardian online

“Women don't make it to the top because they don't deserve to,' he's reported to have said. 'They're crap.' The problem, in his view, was that they 'wimp out and go and suckle something'.

French, 61, later clarified his position. 'What I did say was to be a creative director requires 100 per cent commitment. People who have babies to look after can't do that,' he said”

“Research shows that 80 per cent of all purchasing decisions in Britain are made by women; yet 83 per cent of all 'creatives' are men. This is worse than it was 30 years ago.” Guardian (Art 27) CHAP 2

'Men create the standards by which ads are judged and then go round handing out awards to each other,' says Alps. 'The thing is that they just don't value the kinds of ads that women write and that women like.' Guardian (art 27)    CHAP 2

“Why don't female creatives rise to the top? They get fed up with the dickheads, the heartbreaking choices, the insane juggling that makes you get up and vomit every morning from the stress ... until, finally, they say to hell with it.”

 'Whenever I see a really good ad, I'm impressed because I know that the person who made it is not just very talented but also incredibly pushy. My trouble was that if a suit came along and said, "You've got to put ten seconds of a product shot in" I'd end up doing it. The successful ones, and maybe this is something that men are better at, say, "Get out of my office, arsehole".Sohhie Campbell

Article 30 – one graphic designer in a new generation of feminism, yale

“One of the Guerilla Girls’ most famous campaigns, in 1989, featured Ingres’s Odalisque wearing a gorilla mask and flanking the text: “Do women have to be naked to get into the Met. Museum? Less than 5% of the artists in the Modern Art sections are women, but 85% of the nudes are female.”

Shelia DeBrettville coined the term “feminist design” in the 1970’s

Article 31 – WHERE ARE THE WOMEN? WHERE ARE THE LINKS?

“A more accurate variation on this theme acknowledges that there are truckloads of busy, competent women in design (or technology), and asks why women’s achievements in these fields go grotesquely under-reported and under-recognized. That is a fair and important question but we are not here to answer it.“

Article 32 – Speak up

“So my question is, for such a seemingly progressive field, why is there such a persistent lack of recognition?

Just glance through the AIGA medalists list if you don’t agree. Can it be attributed to societal discrimination in general? I think that’s far too easy an answer. Perhaps men just have bigger egos.”

“It's funny, because in Mexico graphic design is viewed as a "girlie" profession. In my class, only two men graduated (one of them me) compared to 24 women.

But who are the ones who get recognized? Men.”

Article 33 – non existent design: women and the creation of type

“Out of the 478 font designers represented by the Linotype type foundry only 59 (12.3%) are female.”

“A brief survey of the gender of invited speakers at recent international typographic conferences such as ATypI, TypeCon, and Typo Berlin also discloses strikingly unequal numbers: for example, ATypI (2003, 2004) and TypeCon (2003, 2004) reveal an average of 15 percent female contributors (Figure 1). Out of the total of 68 invited presenters at the Typo Berlin (2004) only 5 were female.”

“What measures could be taken to improve gender inequality in the field of typography in the 21st century? What would be the value of more women designing type and contributing to typography? What forms of unconscious resistance are there that hold women back from feeling part of type design and typographic culture?”

Article 34 – Why so few women web designers?

“Coming out of college we had a relatively healthy balance of male / female graduates, all of whom would have spent at least three of the four years deep in web development yet I can only think of 3 or 4 of the female side who are now actively involved in the industry.”

Article 38 – cant work out where itrs from

READ

Article 39 –NUS

Article 40 – Review of Women designers n the USA -1900-2000

Article 41 – sex, women and questions

Article 42 – Jen Husted profile

Article 43 – The Graphic Design Glass Ceiling

“Why do you – all three of you – suppose there are so few female graphic designers – or at least so few ‘superstar’ graphic designers? Is there a glass ceiling in graphic design?”

Journal and Magazines

Grafik magazine heroines special

“ I am embarrassed to admit that I struggle to think of someone when approached to write about a female design hero.”  Matt Willey”

“Name and Graphic design Hero that is a woman? I’m sorry to say I don’t have one.  I know there have been, and are, a number of good female desingers out there, but most of us have yet to achieve any real longevity or fame. Where are all the great woman designers? If you look at fine art, photography, fashion and music the list is endless.” Lisa Smith

Journal 4 – Careers by Design: A Business Guide for Graphic Designers

“For reasons not completely clear, graphic design is overwhelmingly female for those under forty years old.  Employers will need to accommodate women who want a family and a career.  While there is a slow movement towards flexible hours (flextime) and maternity leave (for men too), at the time of writing this it is strictly token.  Talented women will not want to accept positions not offering maternity leave. Several have indicated the desire for four-day workweeks.”

“Women are not always paid as much as men.  Sometimes the cause falls at the feet of the women.  They simply do not ask for as much money.  This may be caused by a lack of security or lack of aggressive negotiation skills.”

Journal 5 – The Hilary Factor

“women have created, perhaps inadvertently, a parallel industry of accessible talent.  Many practice as independent designers operating out of their homes or a sole proprietors of small firms often with one or assistants.  Others tend to cluster at the production level in firms as freelancers or on staff often delegated the work of ‘design bees’ “

“this is not a women’s issue. It is a design issue. The need for flexible work schedules, family leave and feasible child-care, affects both male and female designers but are particularly critical to women who have traditionally been the caregivers.”

“A new hierarchy is forming that is technology- rather than gender-based; the distinction between what Scher refers to as the “planners and the “doers”….this involved in conceptual thinking, problem solving and creative strategies and those who execute routine production tasks, design’s equivalent to the minimum-wage burger-flipping McJob.”  Not really graphic design

“In professional situations women favor inclusive web-like organizational patterns over traditional hierarchical structures”

“ the context of design has shifted from the Reagan/Bush years to larger social/environmental concerns which has lead to the necessity of seeking women designers” Jean Gardner, professor of environmental design at Parsons in New York

“I never realised how important it was to see women who have successfully placed themselves in business, talk about how they got there.  It’s is especially beneficial for foreign students who don’t get the chance to talk to other women designers in their own countries” SharynThomspn

Journal 6- Are there enough women in design? Discuss.. Computer Arts magazine

“When we started up it was really unusual to have two female directors, and we were constantly being asked to come and talk about women in design.  We were never just asked about good design, but rather invited along a s a female voice and female opinion on design.”  Sophie Thomas, Thomas Matthews

“ so I don’t think it’s a question of women not wanting to get back to working at a senior level, but rather the demands of senior-level design jobs are actively preventing them from doing so” Jonathan Lindon, Source Personnel

“Generally in big art degrees it’s quite equal. You look at undergraduate classes and competitions and awards, and the gender split is around 50-50, but then suddenly you think, where are all those women going? They go into the industry and then just fizzle out.”  Sophie Thomas, Thomas Matthews

I probably had about 10 interivews when I first graduated, and lots of people said hey were interviewing me because I was a female in the industry.  I certainly think it’s opened more doors for me than ever held me back.”

“But it’s only when you start reading and finding out about the history of graphic design in particular that you realise just how male-dominated it’s been” Sophie Thomas, Thomas Matthews

Journal 7 – Women in Design- Revisited

“Today, women designer at the peak of their career are often confronted with choices about work and family that men simply do not deal with.  Young women must look ahead now (not later) to their goals of starting their businesses and starting their families – it is a double hit that men do not experience in the same way.”  Sidie and Sonderegger

“Because women largely tend to be the consumers and they are responsible for most purchases in the household, they understand what other women consumers want in terms of marketing and design.”Sidie and Sonderegger

find and mentor and be a mentor

Journal 8 -  The Graphic Glass Ceiling – Graphicfeminsim.blogspot. Paula Scher

“how I envy my male partners who are invited to speak based on their achievements ad prestige as opposed to their sex.  I cannot separate my own achievements from being a women”

“I don’t believe that pursuing this course while happening to be a woman is particularly special, nor do I believe there should be a special standard for women.  I haven’t “broken” into boys’ club.  I am merely following the path of a life in design at a time when’s are opening for women, not merely because they are women, but because they are successfully following that path.”

“ A profession that has been long dominated by men is changing. There are simply more women. There are more women who are terrific designers, more women running their own businesses, more women corporate executives, more women changing the scale of things and appearing out of scale in the process.

There are also more underpaid women, more women juggling careers and motherhood, more women who feel squeezed out in a bad economy, more women going to art school and going nowhere afterwards, and more women who are resentful because of their lack of success “because they are women.”

“Change doesn’t come in one great thump. It comes one by one, and it looks kind of funny and then it doesn’t.”

Journal 9 – Slient majority Graphic Feminism blog

“If you flick through the design history books, you’ll notice that pretty much all the “great designers” have something in common.  They’re men.”

“A few gifted women have smashed through the glass ceiling, but they are the exception to the rule…… in fact, the tiny number of female designers at the top isn’t at all representative of the profession at large, which is now dominated by women.  The same goes for design education. Some 64 percent of last year’s design undergraduates at the Rhode Island School of Design were female.”

I have taught many talented young women and tired like hell to push them, but most were too shy, emotional, cautious and lacked self-confidence and ambition”

“If a prospective client calls Pentagram and doesn’t ask for a partner by name, I see them thinking, Why did I get the woman? When I walk in” Scher says. Even the women do it”

“But are the most famous designs, male or female, always the best ones? That’s another story.”

Aims for week 3

I have read through all my research and I am at the stage where I need to pull put all the key quotes and important bit of information, as i have quite a lot of research I am very much aware that I need to keep track of where everything is coming from. So one of aims for this week is to get all these bits of information done on paper, then I can start writing around them.


As i was typing up my Teal Trigg interview a few days ago, It really hit me how short 4,500 words are, I wouldn't be at all surprised if I find that I have too much to write about! But at this stage I think I would just want to get all my ideas done on paper, then I can edit them.


I am going to spend monday doing stuff for the ITC report, and then Tuesday and Wednesday doing work on the SVR, then on Thursday I have the SVR presentation.


Atm I am struggling slightly more with the SVR mainly because I don't feel like i have sat down and started to be creative with it yet, I am thinking for doing something with my interviews and creating strong typographic/type as image pieces.  But then I also feel i should involve my proposal idea of using icon imagery. I think on Tuesday I am going to look for images of things I want my work to possibly look like.  Lots of people seem to be talking about a final outcome, which is confusing because my understanding is that we should be creating a body of experiments.

Progress

I emailed a few people last night for some more interviews and have already had a response, from Sheila DeBrettville who is a graphic design professor at Yale.  I had read about her in some earlier research and then Teal mentioned her, so after a bit of digging I found an email address for her. She replied That she would be more than happy to answer my questions and that she is jut heading off to China but will be back soon, so that gives me a little bit of time to work on my questions for her.  She also sent me an interview with her by Ginger Wolfe-Suarez, which I am currently read through.

Interview Answers

Teal is also co-founder of the Women's Design + Research Unit (WD+RU), an organisation which seeks to raise awareness about women working in visual communication and related areas. This is the complete version of my interview with Teal, it's quite long, you don't realise how much people talk until you type it up! I am going to go through it and extract the main info that I need for the report, and I also want to contact some of the people that she mentions.

1. Please could you tell me more about the Women's Design + Research Unit (WD+RU)

There is kind of a potted history to what we have done and what we have been doing recently, the WDRU as we fondly refer to it, started in 1994/1995 and in a way it was prompted by a conference that was held here in London, called Fuse ’95. Which was the old experimental Fuse typography publication, that were all on CD, which now of course you can’t really use unless you’ve got the right kind of equipment, so the technology kind of superseded the whole idea. But at the time, it was a really interesting experimental form, for type designers to engage with, typefaces which didn’t necessarily have to have a real world application, so it was kind of a space for experimentation which could then be published and disseminated. So this conference, which was being run by Fontworks, was a way of laughing the publication and bringing together the designers, which had been involved, in the publication up to that point. I was sitting in the audience at this event, I was reviewing for journalism or something or other, I can’t remember exactly, but was quite interested in what was happening and just kind of noticed at the end of the day in terms of the question and answer session, that all of the speakers were white middle class males with glasses and so I had to raise my hand and just ask Neville Rody who I know quite well and I just said “ er Neville I’m just making an observation, but were are the women? And how did you go about the selection process for the publication” And he faltered a little bit and smiled, he knew exactly were I was coming from and Eric Speakerman jumped in and gave an explanation that the people that they knew. Well that told me everything, right there, it was the old boys network. And that’s not to demean at all, they’re all great typographers, i'm friends with most of them and respect them highly. So it had nothing to do with them as individuals, it was just that collective presents, so as a result of that a couple of us had been talking about these issues anyway and we were then contacted by John Roysoncroft, who was editor of the publication, for Fuse, and he said would you be interested in doing a typeface which talked about some of these issues. And we said yeah, of course and so we thought, if we are going to do a typeface we are going to need to have an organization under which the typeface can then be positioned. So that’s when WD+ RU was born as it were, and it kind of consolidated all of our ideas, and it was myself and Liz McQuiston, who teaches at Ravensbourne and we were both there at the time.

RI: Ravensbourne in Chislehurst? That’s were I did my Foundation course.

Yes, I used to run the graphics program there and that’s were Liz and I picked up on each other. And you might also be interested, on a side note, Andrew Slater, who is a graduate from Ravensbourne, is on the MA design for writing course here and he runs the alumni society so you might want to get in touch with him for that connection. A lot of good people came out of Ravensbourne that was a good period of time.

So anyway Liz and I got this together and we had also been talking to Sian Cook, who teaches down on DFA, so we all came together and thought, we have got to take this challenge up, we have make such a big deal about it in front of friends and also because we felt it was important. We had I think 3 weeks to design the typeface and that’s when Pussy Galore was born, And Pussy has got again a really potted history with us, she is a conceptual typeface, so you can’t really use it in commercial situations but what it does is to get people to actually think about the language of women and women’s language used against them, by typing in on the keyboard and various icons and words come up, depending on which key you push. So you have to really think about what’s happening with the type on the screen and your own kind of physicality to the keyboard. Interestingly enough, that is now on exhibition at the Pompidou Centre and their Elle at Pompidou centre on women artists and designers over the last 200 years, so we are taking a group of students in December, if you’re interested. So we tried killing her off a couple of times and we became so well known for that, its like any designer you get tagged with that and we have done many other things, but it has been, even looking at it when we have been to Paris to see what it looks like at the exhibition, it still resonated in terms of our political beliefs, which is not so much about being hardcore feminists and radical bra burning of the 1960’s but we do have an element of that, but it’s much more about a humanistic approach, and the WD+RU is really about giving women voices, who aren’t normally heard and its really nothing more than that, it’s a very simple idea and we have done that in a multitude of ways, not just through typeface design but through workshops with students, through conference presentations, through research projects and I’ll give you on of these, this it one we did a couple of years ago here which some of the staff and students, looking at what’s going on in and around the elephant and castle. So I think a whole range of activities and its also important to note that our day job is being full time educators, so this is something extra, it’s the added value to our lives and a good excuse to come together and design a poster in a day over a bottle of wine, so I think in amount of work we have done over the years its probably not as substantial visually, because a lot of our activities have been behind the scenes and intentionally so. We thought we were more affective as facilitators as opposed to the super star celebrities who stood up at the Fuse event. So that’s kind of the history and Sian and I, well Liz hasn’t had so much involvement over the years because of her job but in terms of what Sian I have been doing we have definitely stayed interested and now when Sian came to LCC it was great, because its easier just to walk downstairs and get together.

2. Within the Faculty of Design do you think there is enough being done to promote female graphic designers? Both past and present.

That’s a really good question, I think a number of things have happened since I’ve come back to LCC, because I was originally here many years ago and started the Ma program, and then went to Kingston then came back. And I have to say when I was here previously, it was very much still the old guard, you know a lot of the guys who used to stand at the end of the bar and do their tutorials down the Student Union. I think I was one of the few women teaching in the school at the time, and since I have come back I think there has been a real strong shift in a lot more women, suitable candidates, you know its not just about them being women, it really is about the right people for the job and it maybe that the applications that are coming in, there is a stronger representation, so therefore a stronger chance to be hired. I don’t know if any stats have been done on that but that’s just my guess in terms of what I’ve been involved with, so from that stand point I think there now is a strong female present and with designers who are doing some great things its bringing all of that together, its improving. The thing I’m still concerned about In this country and it does vary from country to country, that’s one thing as I’ve been travelling around, what happens here isn’t necessarily what happens to women in design in the states, or in Scandinavia or Asia. Britain I think still has that mentality that, well there is a belief in the equal but its manifestation is a little bit shaky and I think in jobs the glass ceiling is still there. So, I think it’s great that we are still based here, because in a way we still have a cause to fight. In the States there is much higher female presents in the design community and recognised as such, and it doesn’t seem to have the same issue, not to say that there isn’t a really strong feminism group there, which there is but there looking at a broader range of issues now, its not just about there own positions, but its about the larger community and more engagement and more kind of social issues, and feminist perspectives. And there is different reasons for that and just to say we went to Scandinavia a couple of years ago and gave a talk to their advertising group and we were really intrigued by that in that, the women who came to talk to us after our talk we wanted to know what there issues were in that particular country and that actually said, because it is a flat management structure, that if you step out to

raise and family or whatever that its harder to come back in, its not like here where there is a hierarchy and you can easier input back into a position, so exposure was happening by the very nature of the economic structure, which is different from here.

RI yeah I have read about certain countries viewing graphic design as a more female job whereas others see it as much more masculine.

Yeah certain countries it has come out of a craft tradition and the printing industry and that’s very much what is happening here. So I think there is still a lot of work to be done, which is why I think it is great that you are taking this on as a subject.

3. Do you think that women bring different attributes and/or attitudes to graphic design? If so, what?

Yes I do, also being very careful that it is about individuals and personalities and what have you. So I had to generalize I would have to say what women bring to the design profession is a capability of multi skilling and multi tasking, and I think that as a designer you have always got jobs on the go and always having to deal with the printers and clients and then studio and that sort of thing, and plus your life outside and the majority of women that I know who run their own studios seem to have a really good handle of what’s going on. I know there is a huge debate about whether or not visually you can tell the difference.

RI. Yeah I did wonder about that, but I wasn’t sure how I would even go about tackling that I think people are too individual to know straight away from their work if they are a man or a woman.

And I would hate to say it looks softer or its pink or its quieter on the page, it might be interesting Paula Sacher, has writing not on the subject but her work in particular which is large scale type and bold that you couldn’t say it was done by a woman. But I think it’s the processes and the skill bases that are being brought into a design studio, which does make the difference and again I think the number of women that I know do not actually seek for celebrity for example, that they are quite happy to truck along, so there is areal kind of pragmatism as well, and these are complete generalizations. So I think its more that then looking at a piece and saying that’s female, that’s male.

4. Do female Graphic Designers get the recognition they deserve? For example are they under-represented in industry events and media etc?

In this country yes, I had a really interesting conversation with the D&AD’s art directors on this very issue and their educational officer who is female was very concerned about this issue and I have to say I was a little disappointed that they weren’t taking more of a role in actively seeking out good women speakers who could talk about there work or other things. They seems a little complacent, that seems a little bit harsh, as an individual she seems very keen to get this moving but as an organization I think there is some complacency, so I think that’s a problem. ISTD that’s different because Frieda is very much active in that and has a high profile, so whether or not typography because its coming out of a craft tradition is seen a bit more ok, whereas the advertising industry, which there are very few at the top as it where, that they would get in for speakers. So yes I think there is still a real issue here. Its also coming out of education and I think the question that Sian and I have is as Wd+RU is “what happens to the women when they graduate?” because the percentage of female students to male is much higher, so there is that whole issue where do they go? Maybe it’s looking at the front end “ why are they coming to do the course? I don’t know, all reasons are valid but are they less motivated in the sense of being career orientated, is it that they are making very conscious decisions to get married and have a family, again all of this absolutely ok. But I can’t put a handle on it, there is such a huge percentage that just seem to disappear or whether they are just getting on with it in their studios.

RI or found a different career path

Again that multi skilling that they take what they have learnt, and apply it to somewhere else, go into publishing, apply it to project management or whatever. So I think that’s still an area that no one has cracked yet, in terms of finding out what those reasons are.

5. Following on from the pervious question, what are the barriers to women Graphic Designers affecting them gaining wider recognition and kudos?

That’s good one, is it barriers or choices? Barriers in some sense that perhaps in the way some studios operate, there is less opportunities, whether by design or not. That there is also that notion that many women may not want to put themselves forward for certain things and weather that’s a lack of confidence. I mean we do find that a lot of women have a lack of confidence in what they are doing, like they are brilliant designers but they don’t know how to sell themselves, because that’s not something as young women you are actually taught to do. Because I grew up in the south of the US and its about being demure and sitting on the front porch and saying “yes Sir” and all that kind of hospitality. So I would say is it barriers or is it choices, and it’s probably a combination or the two, that’s really difficult one.

RI and maybe women are less likely to ask for a pay rise, they just accept it

‘Yeah and the guys, and if I think of education there is a big debate about women professors and how many of us there are compared to our male counterparts, again not demeaning any of them, but the debate is there is still an enforces glass ceiling and that the guys are good at negotiating, so when they are made professor, they go in and say, “right you have made me and Prof, give me £30,000 more than what I have just got” and they say ok. But if the gals go in and say that, they say, lets just wait until next year. So there is a lot of evidence now growing in that area, were they have been doing work to determine the inequality and the mechanisms by which that inequality is occurring. So I would suggest that that is sharing some aspects with the design industry.

6. With more female graphic design graduates emerging in recent years do you think this will affect industry? And how?

I think it already has, I think in the last 5 years, just talking to students like yourself and recent graduates that there has been kind of a renaissance of interest in this area and I think as a result of that its like the next generation having the voice to push all these issues through and I think probably in a better position to getting something done

RI like in our course there is 28 of us on the course and there are only 4 guys and thinking of there is a whole load of women here, but something you don’t feel like you see the women out there. And that sparked the idea in my head, and I thought this could be interesting

And you have got role models within your own group, for me, when I was in university, the role models were few and far between, and they are still in education Shelia Debretville in Yale and Kathy McCoy, so it was that generation that I was looking up to and I think gradually over the years it has increased and there has been students of those women, who have had a keen interest in this area, so I think we are gradually building up a foundation of those voices, which I think is terrific. I don’t know if you have come across Sybil Hagman, she is a type designer and educator in Houston, I think she is originally from Switzerland and studied in kellarts and studies type design under Michael Worthington, I did an interview with her for a book, Font Source book, Black dot publishing, it came out within the last two years. Sybil has very specific views as to what she considers the female voice to be within the industry and she is someone who is engaged as a young type designer and the kind of opportunities that she has had or not had depending so she is probably a good resource.

7. Are there any designers, books or articles that you could recommend to assist my research?

There is a new book which has just come out on women designers, and you seen the article in Eye magazine that Ellen Lupton and Lori Mackerler, which was called something about the matriarchy and its talking to 3 women designers and they do talk about those issues, it may have been re printed in one of Steven Hellers Looking Closer series. Also Fiona Carsons book on Visual Culture and I wrote a piece in that about WD+RU, you know same kind of questions that you have been asking, that’s a collection of essays, so other people have been looking at crafts so there might be other things in there also well.

There is a book on women designs that came out 5 or 6 years ago, and the editor of that was Pat Karkham and she is a British design historian and she teaches in the States in New York, and I think it was part of an exhibition and it’s a massive book, and Ellen Lupton again has a piece in there. And Pat has a good introduction about design in general, because it doesn’t just affect graphics,

Yeah I think things like the web based and gaming industries there aren’t very many women.

Yeah in the gaming industry I think that’s changing. Did you see the piece that we done in Emigre magazine, that would be a really good one to look at, emergray site they list the contents, and we designed and wrote the spreads for that, we called it Maggie Thatcher’s handbag.

I have found a lot of stuff on web asking where are all these women designers

Yeah but no one is really interrogating it.

I think part of its visibility, that’s the problem I had with D&AD, and the women said, well tell me two women designers, and I thought well I’m not going t be doing your job, you need to do the research and get the women up there. I think it is the time, history comes full circle and this is a real opportunities to made these women visible, if they want to, sometimes people just want to be left to themselves, but to seek out the really good role models is always a good thing its affects the cannon in term of what we look

Women even from the start of the 20th century who designers some really iconic stuff.

Marion Cooper MIT labs in the early days she designed and set up the media labs and especially with men being in the computing, she did a lot of digital programming and she is terrific, so you have these spots, but again that’s America, when you start looking at this country they are there they are just a little bit more hidden.